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Special Needs and Disabilities Roundtable: Advancement - Shared screen with speaker view
Andrea Watson
12:50
@deb - Frosty the snowman?
Deb Reidmiller
13:01
yup
Howard Wolkow
13:33
Good job deb!
Nadya Jorewicz
13:48
will recording be available?
Andrea Watson
14:11
yes it will
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
14:12
Yes
Andrea Watson
14:56
https://www.scouting.org/resources/disabilities-awareness/
Andrea Watson
15:01
This week! :)
Andrea Watson
15:08
https://www.scouting.org/resources/disabilities-awareness/inclusion-toolbox/
Andrew Hague
17:36
can you post the link to the site please?
Andrea Watson
17:43
https://www.scouting.org/resources/disabilities-awareness/inclusion-toolbox/
Deb Reidmiller
18:04
https://www.scouting.org/resources/disabilities-awareness/inclusion-toolbox/
Andrea Watson
19:32
Introduction Tony mentioned - https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-071.pdf?_gl=1*62aqw4*_ga*Nzk5MzM5NTY3LjE2MzEwMzg1NDQ.*_ga_20G0JHESG4*MTYzOTUyNjk5Ny40NjQuMS4xNjM5NTI4Nzc5LjYw
Andrea Watson
20:27
https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/ptc/
Chriss Gaus
20:53
Will there be any training like that online?
Chriss Gaus
21:21
Thank you
Tony Mei
22:33
Tonight's presentation will be emailed to all who have registered for tonight's Roundtable
Andrea Watson
22:40
https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/keys-experience/
Andrea Watson
24:34
I cant wait to be in the Florida Keys with amazing Scouting families!
Deb Reidmiller
25:13
Lots of program for an affordable cost!
Cheryl Smarkel
25:52
Will there be any training at Sea Base with the Keys Experience?
Andrea Watson
26:05
Send me name of the pizza place!
Tony Mei
28:20
SND 200 is also downloadable from the landing page (scouting.org/resources-disabilities-awareness
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
33:31
Can a scout stay in Cub Scout beyond the age of eligibility?
Ann Bruner-Welch
33:38
Yes.
Edward Ference
33:50
can you use a special needs teacher sign off instead of a doctor
Deb Reidmiller
34:11
Yes, but for Cub Scouting its Do Your Best!
Ann Bruner-Welch
34:24
No, however, having their input is really important as part of the documentation of the disability
Paul Reid, Garden State Council
34:27
Do they need to maintain uninterrupted registration in Scouts?
Ann Bruner-Welch
34:32
Yes
Dave - PTAC
35:37
But scouts with disabilities can register after 18 too start too right?
Sandra Payne
36:01
Yes. When they turn 18 they become a registered adult needing to take YPT. As well as if not in scouting until age 18 or older.
Janet Kelly
36:04
Yes Dave that is correct
Deb Reidmiller
36:05
Yes
Renee Seymour
36:13
Most parents do not think they need to register their Cub Scout as a Special Needs Scout; but without that designation other groups do not realize that accommodations should be granted.
Ann Bruner-Welch
36:35
Clarification, a teacher may not take the place of a physician, however, their inputs important in documenting the disability and accommodations that can be helpful
Denise Brasher
36:44
what sort o f documentation do you need from a doctor. For instance on my daughters health forms it lists her autism and the doctor signs off on that. Do you need a more formal note at some point?
Elena Howard
37:12
So if you are registered beyond age of eligibility you are a scout forever because it is permanent? Does that mean you need to re-register if you move to adult?
Deb Reidmiller
37:16
The MD needs to certify that the disability is permanent
Denise Brasher
37:30
thank you
Edward Ference
37:49
if it is a learning disability why a doctor to sign off
Dave - PTAC
38:00
If a cub scout is registered BAE do they have to do it again in BSA?
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
38:03
Elena, yes that is correct
Nadya Jorewicz
38:16
Can you use previous evaluations for disability (e.g. Autism evaluation) or do you need to do it again
Jane Grossman
38:32
See the form for RBAE and the explanation of how to register and you will know what documentation is accepted.
Deb Reidmiller
38:40
Elena yes - AS LONG AS YOU (the scout) REMAINS registered.
Sandra Payne
38:40
Denise, If her scouting health form the answer is no. It would need to be a letter stating the diagnosis, any restrictions or concerns for their safety.
Ann Bruner-Welch
39:06
Elena, once a Scout reaches the age of 18, they register as an adult - unit participant. They do take Youth Protection Training.
Warren Wenner
39:36
If you are going to the Key Experience There are a row of gas grills to cook on . Winn Dixie is about 2 21/2 away and by the Winn Dixie is a great pizza place called Pops Jim;s Pizza & Subs
Jane Grossman
40:01
I meant to say see the Guide to Advancement section 10 for how to register beyond the age of eligibility and what documentation is acceptable.
Bill Green
40:12
how about OI aka brittle bone.There are many levels that can have different effects on the scout. Will that be covered under physical?
Sandra Payne
40:28
At age 18 there may be a person that can not feasibly take YPT there is a form listed that your Scout Exec can request. Shown now by tony.
Janet Kelly
40:30
Nadya It is best to use the most current evaluation. In other words not documentation older than two or three years old.
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
41:01
Bill, if the scout meets all the requirements, then yes
Ann Bruner-Welch
42:39
Bill, with OI, the physician would document the diagnosis, as well as what restrictions they recommend. in the case of OI, it would be anything that would potentially break bones.
Andrea Watson
42:46
https://www.scouting.org/resources/disabilities-awareness/
Andrea Watson
42:59
^Special needs landing page with all resources
Michael-Sunflower Hill
43:36
How would it work if a young adult with IDD would need a caregiver to go with them to scouting activities assigned to them by lets say East Bay Regional Center...do they need to go through the same background investigation. Follow up question, what happens if they get different caregivers assigned last minute?
Diane Cloutier
44:01
Need to change the wording to "child" and not "son".
Elena Howard
44:12
Please change "sons" to cub's. gender neutral
Andrea Watson
44:30
@elena great catch we will fix
Deb Reidmiller
44:40
My fault… Thought I got them all
Warren Wenner
44:44
Thanks Elena
Sandra Payne
45:10
Care givers need to have YPT and if not already vetted they need a background check.
Michael-Sunflower Hill
45:51
Thanks Sandra
Susan Lewis
47:03
Can a scout who has a permanent mental and physical disability who is not capable of passing the BSA Swimmer Test (Req 6A of First Class) or completing the Swimming Merit Badge achieve Eagle Rank?
Sandra Payne
47:06
Michael-Sunflower Hill, Also to add to that if at camp or overnight events each should be handled on a local basis and as far in advance as you can.
Deb Reidmiller
48:10
Susan, yes. If they cannot pass the BSA test, you can apply for an alternative MB
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
48:26
Susan, yes. There are alternatives available.
Deb Reidmiller
48:40
See the slide Tony is discussing right now
Deb Reidmiller
49:24
And the alternative MB cannot be already earned
Pierre Landry-Verdugo Hills Cncl
50:04
Why are these restrictions in place?A Scout may have a convenient opportunity to complete an alternate rank requirement (like a wheelchair hike) before s/he has "completed as many of the existing requirements as possible."Likewise, early in their career, a Scout with a severe disability may earn a merit badge (like Art) that is later deemed to be an appropriate replacement for an Eagle-required merit badge (like Citizenship in the Community).
Andrea Watson
51:03
Form link https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-730.pdf
Sandra Payne
52:29
Pierre, A wheelchair is part of the person and would constitute a hike. Now if you need to change from say a 20 mile to 5 mile that will be different.
Pierre Landry-Verdugo Hills Cncl
53:20
That early opportunity is after they have earned First Class.
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
53:37
However, they are not required to move the wheelchair under their own manpower. they can be puched by other scouts
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
53:57
*pushed
Janet Kelly
54:04
There is a difference between modifications and accommodations. Accommodations is like putting your glasses on to see (wheelchair hike) Modifications would be like overhauling your car engine (5 miles instead of 20)
Michael-Sunflower Hill
54:58
I was curious about that especially when the need to describe your Eagle Scout project in detail etc.
Pierre Landry-Verdugo Hills Cncl
55:00
Sandra, I'm not questioning the alternatives. I'm questioning the restriction that ALL OTHER REQUIRED MBs need to be earned before applying.
Bill Green
55:15
There are seemingly many 'new' differently enable challenges. Are we going to have modules so scouters get get the information they need for that disability and not a long laundry list of grouped together disabilities so it can be just one training and the person only needs 10 minutes out of a 90 minute training. I know I would not be looking forward to 90 minutes to get 10 minutes of the actual information they need.
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
56:38
Bill, it would be impossible to cover every challenc
Sandra Payne
56:39
Also, you should develop a rough plan, look at eagle mb that you review what mb may be a challenge for them. Look at alternates so that they can aware of the challenge.
Sandra Payne
58:27
Bill, The Tool Box does go thru many challenges to those that are looking for information in the moment. Round Tables are to provide a large group information.
Ken Todd
58:51
I talked with a leader in PA who was part of a Special Needs Troop that had a brother (regular) Troop. Some activities were separate, but many were together.
Cheryl Smarkel
59:27
We have 2 Special needs units in our council. Membership in both units consists of adults with similar disabilities and cognitive ages. One unit is a Crew, and the other a Cub Pack which started everyone as a Wolf.
Susan Lewis
59:31
What if it is a rank requirement, like 6a of the first class rank that requires a scout to complete the BSA Swimmer test, but they cannot do that because of a permanent disability. It doesn’t look like form 512-730 covers that
Jane Grossman
59:59
Bill, if there is a particular scout whose disability you want to learn about talk with him and his parents and learn what he/she is capable of and where you can adapt to make the program work.
Rick Shema
01:00:23
Ken: What Council are you referring to?
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
01:00:27
Susan, you can request alternative rank requirements
Janet Kelly
01:00:27
Pierre all other required MBs to be earned before applying is an individual matter. If a Scout is permanently unable to move his/her body because of a permanent issue, then an alternative can be applied for. There is no need to earn all MBs before one is attempted in definite circumstances. However, some of the invisible disabilities may be cause for waiting a bit until the Scout has matured some or finally gotten used to sensory challenges. Hence he/she COULD complete a MB as written so there is individual concerns to determine whether to wait or not. This is not a cookie cutter type of "rule"
Deb Reidmiller
01:00:57
Susan, it’s possible to request alternative rank requirements
Ken Todd
01:01:05
I think they were in Chester County. I know it was part of NE Area 6
Warren Wenner
01:01:34
Sometime having a special ed teacher in a board of review working with their student can be helpful to a board. For example a teacher may be able to phrase a question from a board member in a way that the scout would understand better because they know the student/scout. This will help the scout answer the question the board is asking
Sandra Payne
01:03:06
Pierre and others, The list of alternate merit badges on the form are recommendations. What is submitted by the individual/support adults needs to be equivalent in effort.
William Santry
01:03:08
Could you please send the link to ISAP
Pierre Landry-Verdugo Hills Cncl
01:03:28
Janet, The GUIDE TO ADVANCEMENT 2021 has the following restrictions that are very clear and very specific. I am advocating for eliminating them. Why are they there?§10.2.2.2 How to Apply for Alternative RequirementsBefore applying for alternative requirements, as many ofthe existing requirements must be completed as possible.§10.2.2.3 Alternative Merit Badges for Eagle Scout Rank...Before applying, the Scout must earn as many of theEagle-required merit badges as possible.
Andrea Watson
01:03:35
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-936_wb.pdf
Andrea Watson
01:03:45
^Individual scout Advancement Plan link
William Santry
01:03:57
Thank you
Bill Green
01:04:52
I know that. But as scouts come in to and they have challenges that scouting does not have information...it would be a good idea that when the the unit learns about the new challenge that they pass it up to the council and the territory and national. That way when some one else seeks information on ______ then the council, territory and national can say we have no, limited, or this is where to get the best information so the scouters can provide the best scouting experience for the scout.
Janet Kelly
01:05:10
Pierre, Thanks for questioning this. We will work on it. I am noting this so it can be addressed.
Pierre Landry-Verdugo Hills Cncl
01:05:44
Thank you very much, Janet! This is a long overdue change.
Deb Reidmiller
01:06:44
Pierre, I’ve also noted it for discussion at our next meeting.
Bill Green
01:07:40
I would suggest that the process be easy to start the process of requesting a new training module.
Andrea Watson
01:08:30
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-935_wb.pdf
Rick Shema
01:08:35
Warren: Pierre has a good point regarding alternate requirements. I've often wondered that myself. It takes an enormous amount of planning to comply with the policy of earning all requirements the scout is capable of first before alternate requirements can be applied for. Can National take a look at whether this requirement is needed? Thank you.
Deb Reidmiller
01:08:36
Bill, not sure what you are asking… a new training module
Holly Hammond
01:08:49
version of the powerpoint on the web page is not this version
William Santry
01:09:00
What is the form for extension again?
Andrea Watson
01:09:01
@holly we will replace
Susan Lewis
01:09:02
Thi
William Santry
01:09:07
extended time
Andrea Watson
01:09:10
I will send all links with follow up tomorrow
Susan Lewis
01:09:21
This is really good information - Thank You
William Santry
01:09:36
OK it was cut off on presentation
Warren Wenner
01:09:38
Don’t forget when you are working with Special needs teachers not to forget, to asked for help from OTs, PT’s and Adaptive PE teachers who work with the student/scout too.
Andrea Watson
01:09:56
@william - here is form link https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-935_wb.pdf
Bill Green
01:10:25
When having to use a ISAP since it is a 2 page document have all the scouts sign the top page then that way when the scouter is reviewing the ISAP it will not attract attention by the other scouts.
Deb Reidmiller
01:11:00
@Bill Gotcha
Jane Grossman
01:11:58
Rick, Warren, there is a little historical reasoning behind completing all the requirements a scout can before an requesting an alternate. I am not sure I agree with the reasoning. It definitely should be up for discussion in our meeting.
Michael-Sunflower Hill
01:12:24
What can be done for the Leadership requirement such as Patrol Leader or Troup Leadership Corp. if the scout is unable to perform in this manner? Not sure if this is even still a requirement for Eagle Scout or not.
Debi Ryan
01:13:26
Chaplain's Aide works very well as Leadership
Kat Davis-Lichtenberger
01:13:46
Michael, there are several leadership positions that the scout could most likely fill.
Deb Reidmiller
01:13:47
@Michael-Sunflower Leadership is a part of the Eagle requirements, but there are other positions that would qualify
Ann Bruner-Welch
01:14:10
Michael - Sunflower Hill - using a buddy is one way a Scout can complete leadership requirements- the buddy works with the Challenged Scout, and helps them learn and gradually take on more of the leadership roles.
Rick Shema
01:14:24
Jane: Thank you. Maybe there was a qualified reason in the past. But that reason may not apply to today's standards. it would be appreciated if National could look into this. If you need a volunteer, let me know.
Janet Kelly
01:14:37
A SM can be creative to developing leadership positions needed within the unit
midge Savage
01:15:33
Remember that the new language refers to positions of responsibilities
Bill Green
01:16:02
Is the chat going to be recorded to?
Deb Reidmiller
01:16:27
yes it is recorded and will be sent out if requested
Mark Chilutti
01:16:54
Thanks to everyone for the great questions in the chat, and to my colleagues on the national committee for taking care of the answers and discussion so Tony and I could keep our focus!
Michael-Sunflower Hill
01:17:08
Great discussion tonight! Thank you everyone happy holidays!
Bill Green
01:17:08
There may be some gold in the chat
Sandra Payne
01:17:13
Happy Holidays All!
Linda Owczarz
01:17:13
o much - happy holidays!
Denise Brasher
01:17:15
thank you
Diane Cloutier
01:17:16
Thanks!
James Fisher
01:17:19
I would like to receive the recording:James Fisherjfishe15@gmail.com